1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000
This is 1225 p.m. July 8, 1962.

2
00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:10,000
This is Earl Ness and Bob Grove in the backyard of their home in Strongsville, Ohio.

3
00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:16,000
I think it would be interesting to tell you, artist, the type of work you do.

4
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:23,000
Well, I'm a school teacher. I teach physical science and space science,

5
00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:29,000
which is sort of a composite of electronics as well as the new founded space science

6
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:33,000
over at Root High School in North Royalton.

7
00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:39,000
Recently, I decided you took a trip to Canada.

8
00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,000
What was your trip?

9
00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:46,000
That's right. It was one of two main purposes, one of which was actually a honeymoon.

10
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:52,000
My wife and I, who at that time had been married four months, this was, as you know, two weeks ago,

11
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,000
and we thought it was about time we had an honeymoon.

12
00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:05,000
Could you, um, speak to Bob some more? You did get to interview Will Bruce Nelson about his illness?

13
00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:10,000
Yes. Despite his illness, we had, I feel, a very successful interview with him.

14
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,000
It amounted to two meetings of a couple hours each.

15
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:19,000
As a result of this, I feel that I came back rich with information.

16
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:24,000
I won't say that all of the information necessarily do I agree with,

17
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,000
nor really would I condemn any of it.

18
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:36,000
The information is all found, I feel, on a very sincere, dedicated, and intelligent reasoning process on the part of Mr. Smith.

19
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,000
And this is, of course, the primary purpose of our recording is to go over some of this material.

20
00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:52,000
Yes. I think it might be well if you would mention here just who Will Bruce Smith is for benefit of anyone who might be in doubt.

21
00:01:52,000 --> 00:02:03,000
Alright. Will Bruce Smith was director of the project, which we were started to in the early 50s, as Project Magnets,

22
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:10,000
which of course was Canada's introduction to governmental pursuits as a UFO phenomenon.

23
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:20,000
Will Bruce Smith being a member of the Transportation Board of Canada, which is very similar to our Federal Communication Commission

24
00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:24,000
and other means of both communication and transportation.

25
00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,000
And the Canadian Board, they have actually a combined effort made part.

26
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:37,000
I remember reading a number of articles in 2018, a foreign thought review of London,

27
00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:45,000
some years ago in the home of George Poppich, the director of the Archimedes-Hollies-Ditch Committee.

28
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:50,000
And so we call reading a quite a long letter by Robert Smith.

29
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:56,000
He wrote an interesting telling, he referred about time in this letter, as I recall,

30
00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:01,000
about the hardware that he thought that we had in his country.

31
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,000
You arrived in, this is Othello where he lives.

32
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:14,000
That's right, he actually lives in Cityview, which is a residential suburb to the southwest of the city of Ottawa,

33
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:19,000
just outside of the capital city by perhaps two or three miles.

34
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:26,000
He was sufficiently well to be interviewed and he had just returned from the hospital.

35
00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:32,000
He was well enough for discussion and occasional movement of his own volition.

36
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:38,000
He had come in from the outside in and then again when we left he came into the door.

37
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:43,000
But from the standpoint of being really in good physical condition as of yet he was not.

38
00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:48,000
I presume you had quite a few questions in your own mind that you might have answered.

39
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:49,000
Yes, indeed.

40
00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:56,000
Supposing you just pick it up from there now for a little while, I'll keep interrupting your time.

41
00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,000
All right.

42
00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:06,000
No, but questions be charged, which I will fail to foresee and if anything does pop up, why you be sure to ask.

43
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:11,000
From the time we met immediately, I hope I didn't bug him with these questions,

44
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:15,000
but I did go on with quite a number of them to find out what his ideas were.

45
00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:25,000
I should say at first, as we go into this, that the opinions, the theories and the statements which I will make

46
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,000
from here on into the recording will be those of Wilbert Smith.

47
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:34,000
They are not necessarily those of my own.

48
00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:46,000
First of all, it might be well to note that Mr. Smith's ideas of what we call dimensions of reality are in the number of 12.

49
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:53,000
He believes that there are 12 dimensions, which he calls parameters, and they are in sets of three each.

50
00:04:53,000 --> 00:05:00,000
The first is four fields, he calls them, or fabrics, perhaps I should say fabrics, to which he referred.

51
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:06,000
The first three we call the space fabric, and this is the one, of course, with which we're all familiar.

52
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,000
The distance between two points we call length.

53
00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:14,000
As we move this length back and forth, we occupy an area, which is the second space fabric.

54
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:21,000
And finally, as the area itself moves back and forth in the third plane, we make volume.

55
00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:26,000
Now, we go into what we commonly refer to as the fourth dimension, which is time.

56
00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:34,000
Then we have left now the first three space fabrics, and we now enter what we call the field fabric.

57
00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:40,000
Time being the fourth parameter, we call this the tempic field.

58
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:51,000
This, according to Mr. Smith, is derived actually from volume, and each one of these, by the way, can be derived from the preceding.

59
00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:54,000
The tempic field then is derived from volume.

60
00:05:54,000 --> 00:06:00,000
The fifth would be derived by going to the fourth, and so on, right down through all 12 of these parameters.

61
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:07,000
The tempic field then, number four, this is derived from volume through the application of the quadrature concept,

62
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,000
something I'm unfortunately unable to discuss at this time.

63
00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:16,000
Not because it's not being willing to, only because of the lack of ability to.

64
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,000
Number five, we have the electric field.

65
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,000
Six, the magnetic field.

66
00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,000
Now, these complete the field fabric.

67
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:27,000
Seven, eight, and nine are what we call the control fabric.

68
00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,000
Or I should say more correctly what he calls the control fabric.

69
00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,000
Seventh is what he calls random and chaos disorganization.

70
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:39,000
Eight is the idea of the entering of free will or choice.

71
00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:42,000
And ninth, we finally have sequence or orderliness.

72
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,000
Now, these are what he calls control fabric.

73
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:55,000
The final three parameters, number 10, form, number 11, particularization, and 12, aggregation.

74
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,000
Now, we have completed by these length, area, volume.

75
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:04,000
Those again, the first three parameters comprising the space fabric.

76
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:11,000
The tempic field, electric field, and magnetic field, those are four, five, and six comprising the field fabric.

77
00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,000
Seventh, eight, and nine were of the control fabric.

78
00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:21,000
These were random chaos disorganization, free will and choice, sequence and orderliness.

79
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:29,000
Finally, the precipitation from the word perceived, the precipitation fabric.

80
00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:35,000
Tenth was form, 11th particularization, and 12th aggregation.

81
00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,000
So these were what he calls the 12 dimensions.

82
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:45,000
He says that all of these concepts and measurements which we have in reality start at zero and extend to infinity.

83
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:56,000
So that any of these 12 can actually be measured concretely and they begin at zero or nonexistence and extend to infinity without any finite limit.

84
00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:03,000
Any parameter again can be reached as a natural consequence of the extension of the previous expression.

85
00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:11,000
So that we could get number five, for example, the electric field by extending the time or tempic field which was four.

86
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:17,000
And then if we want it from volume going through, which was three, going through four and then to five, you see.

87
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:22,000
So that any one of these can be reached by going through the other fabrics.

88
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:27,000
Alright, this is the idea then of the 12 dimensions of parameters.

89
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:37,000
Going on from there, let me handle first his idea of gravity, what gravity is, natural as well as artificial.

90
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:49,000
Gravity can be expressed as a formula, as an equation actually, as the product of first the square of the quantity polarization.

91
00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:55,000
And polarization is expressed as, for example, both times centimeters or both centimeters.

92
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,000
This would be one way of saying polarization.

93
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:06,000
We take this quantity after squaring it and multiply it times field divergence, which is a reciprocal quantity.

94
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,000
It's one over the radius of whatever field we are discussing.

95
00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:19,000
So that as the formula, we would have gravity equals polarization squared times the field divergence.

96
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:28,000
Or another way to express that would be gravity equals both centimeters, the quantity squared times one over the radius.

97
00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:35,000
This would be a means then of actually providing us with a formula from which to work.

98
00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:41,000
Now we get into artificial gravity. How can we actually produce this?

99
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,000
Well, we know a formula. We've just discussed that.

100
00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:51,000
So let's do some dealings then with the actual operation of this formula and apply it.

101
00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:57,000
In doing this, I have a disk here, which we'll have to describe, I think, to the audience earl.

102
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,000
As you can see at the disk, approximately five inches in diameter,

103
00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:14,000
perhaps I should say that its construction is a ring of brass in which we have placed several ceramic magnets in a concentric pattern around the center.

104
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,000
I see eight there.

105
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,000
Yes, that's right. There are eight of the little square ceramic magnets.

106
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:25,000
Now this has then been filled in order to keep these in order.

107
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:33,000
We have filled this ring and covered the magnets with a polyester material, actually a type of liquid plastic,

108
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:37,000
which has a curing agent when we mix these two together, why it sets very hard.

109
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:43,000
You can see it has a yellowish tint and it's a very poor job from the standpoint of what I've been able to do with it.

110
00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,000
You make that catalyst with it yourself?

111
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:52,000
That's right. That's right. These both come from one of the large chemical distributors in two cans,

112
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,000
and then upon mixing we cure one and then it begins to set.

113
00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:02,000
We have then a concentric configuration of eight ceramic magnets.

114
00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,000
These are flat, little ceramic magnets.

115
00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:10,000
As you can see, having two broad surfaces, the surfaces, by the way, are the ones that are polarized north and south,

116
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:13,000
not the ends or the edges, but the surfaces.

117
00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:19,000
So the large surfaces on top are all north and on the bottom all south.

118
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,000
Now that when we have these in this concentric configuration,

119
00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:28,000
why we have only north pole on one side and only south pole on the other side,

120
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:33,000
making the whole ring itself polarized one side of the other, north and south.

121
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,000
This is a brass ring in the other side?

122
00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,000
This is a brass ring.

123
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:42,000
None whatsoever. The only magnetism is inherent in this ceramic magnet.

124
00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:48,000
Now, according to Mr. Smith, an artificial gravity can be produced by this device,

125
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,000
by finding its perfect center, balancing it well, and spinning it.

126
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:57,000
Now, it's not a question of just putting it on a pencil after drilling a hole and whirling it around.

127
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:04,000
This has to be spun at a very high, very appreciable rate of spin.

128
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:10,000
His experimental model, he was able to get up to 15,000 revolutions per minute.

129
00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:20,000
Now to do this, he took the disc, mounted it on a shaft, actually a non-magnetic permeable shaft,

130
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,000
so that it would have no magnetic effect.

131
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,000
The shaft then went down to a motor.

132
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,000
It was a series wound motor so that we could get up tremendous speed with this low load on it.

133
00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:38,000
The motor he used was a vacuum cleaner motor, the field coil of which was fed by a grizz path,

134
00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,000
which had been connected in series with the line voltage.

135
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,000
The line voltage he used was 220 volts.

136
00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:50,000
Now, of course, the 110-volt vacuum cleaner motor on a 220-volt line would really spin,

137
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,000
and this was the idea. He did achieve 15,000 revolutions per minute with this.

138
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,000
Now he had done this.

139
00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,000
By the way, the first results, unfortunately, were quite a calamity.

140
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,000
The thing blew up like a hand grenade because of the tremendous velocity.

141
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,000
It was reached. It's a spinning velocity.

142
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:13,000
Of course, some measure had to be taken in order to protect the observers, the experimenters, which was done.

143
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:19,000
They built a well out of concrete block, and then the entire unit was placed in this well.

144
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,000
This worked quite well. The well worked well.

145
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:29,000
On spinning it then, they found they had one that apparently wasn't going to blow up, this next one,

146
00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:35,000
and it would be a good idea now to try some rather positive steps in experimental work.

147
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,000
The ones that they used, there were two.

148
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:41,000
First, they took a wrist watch.

149
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:47,000
Now, the reason they did this, remember originally in our 12 parameters,

150
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,000
we discussed the possibility that time was one of the parameters.

151
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,000
In fact, we call it the fourth dimension.

152
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000
As we go through others, we get into electric field and the magnetic and so on,

153
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,000
which possibly has something to do, you see, with gravity.

154
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,000
And this was the experiment to see whether there was a relationship.

155
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:08,000
Well, now, obviously, if these are all interrelated and we work one of them,

156
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:16,000
creating, for example, an artificial gravity, then perhaps there'd be a noticeable effect in one of the other parameters that we could observe.

157
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:19,000
So, what they did, they took a wrist watch.

158
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,000
I would presume, although I don't know, I would presume it was an anti-magnetic watch.

159
00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:32,000
And this was then placed in the field, the magnetic field of the disc, which was then spun.

160
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:38,000
Now, upon spinning this at 15,000 rpm with the watch in close proximity to it,

161
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:45,000
this was done for a period, actually, of five minutes.

162
00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,000
And at the end of this five-minute interval, the watch was again removed and checked,

163
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,000
and it had lost 20 seconds.

164
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:58,000
So, very definitely, the watch had lost 20 seconds, a perfectly well-running watch,

165
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:05,000
much I might add, in this five-minute interval of the field being placed in proximity to it.

166
00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:11,000
Now, of course, one might immediately say, well, if it were a magnetically susceptible watch,

167
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,000
perhaps the magnetism itself had something to do with it.

168
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:21,000
Well, this is quite true, and this is the reason, of course, why it should have definite experimental work

169
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:26,000
before one can come to any particular conclusions about it.

170
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:33,000
However, I would definitely assure myself that Mr. Smith probably knows when a watch is magnetic

171
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000
or non-magnetic, and that he would not use a magnetic watch in a magnetic field,

172
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000
if, of course, it would be absurd.

173
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,000
And I feel quite confident that he did take this precaution.

174
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:51,000
The next experiment that was used, I will have to delve a little bit into electronic theory on this one.

175
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:57,000
I hope I can, as a radio ham, I hope I'll be able to do some justice to this.

176
00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:04,000
We find that if we take a coil of wire and we put across it a device called a capacitor,

177
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:10,000
that this will have a distinct sensitivity to a particular radio frequency.

178
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,000
That is, a certain number of prescribed turns with a certain type of capacitor across it

179
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:19,000
will have what we call a resonance to a certain radio frequency.

180
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:26,000
Now, we find that he did this by, of course, I mean Mr. Smith.

181
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:32,000
He took a coil of wire and put a capacitor across it, and he shielded it well

182
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,000
so that no extraneous effects around it would change the resonant frequency of this.

183
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,000
And this is what we call actually an LC oscillator.

184
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:48,000
The L stands for, oddly enough, inductance, which is the coil, and the C stands for capacitance.

185
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:52,000
That is the capacitor that's placed across it to determine the frequency.

186
00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:58,000
And this coil, this probe, I should say, and consisting of a capacitor and a coil

187
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:08,000
were fed to a shielded piece of coaxial cable, and the device itself was shielded into an oscillator.

188
00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:14,000
This oscillator then, of course, this circuit, would be the frequency of which it would oscillate,

189
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,000
lose the coaxial contingent upon the configuration of that coil and the capacitor.

190
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:23,000
Now, they had a very distinct frequency.

191
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,000
They monitored it on a receiver. They heard it on the receiver.

192
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:37,000
I put a V-frequency oscillator on the receiver, which is a device that provides a frequency very close

193
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:41,000
to the one that that original coil and capacitor were resonant to.

194
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,000
And now, when we get two frequencies right together, we get what we call a beat note.

195
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:52,000
That is a resultant frequency as a result of the two playing against each other.

196
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,000
Now, this is an audible note.

197
00:17:55,000 --> 00:18:02,000
The LC oscillator probe then was put into this revolving field, and upon doing so,

198
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:08,000
as soon as it was put in, there was a distinct change in the note, a very distinct,

199
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,000
tremendous change in the beat note.

200
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:16,000
Now, this meant without any question, the only thing that could possibly have changed was the time

201
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:21,000
that was involved, because the mechanics of the coil was still there.

202
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,000
The capacitor was still the same type.

203
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,000
You might say, well, if this is spinning, perhaps we're going to get, if it's a magnet,

204
00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:34,000
and it's spinning, perhaps we're going to get a voltage buildup that's going to have some effect.

205
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:40,000
Might I remind you that the only way that you can induce voltage into a coil with a magnet spinning

206
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:46,000
is if the magnet is spinning end over end, so we get north, south, north, south, like that.

207
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000
And this, remember, isn't.

208
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:53,000
The axis of the magnetic field is spinning, so that we always have exactly the same amount of north

209
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,000
or exactly the same amount of south all the time it's spinning.

210
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,000
So this definitely would not come into play here at all.

211
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:09,000
Again, then, when you place this LC oscillator coil into the field that was being set up by this spinning disk,

212
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,000
we notice a very distinct shift in frequency of that coil without any question.

213
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:21,000
So these were two experiments that were done, and both noticeably had the effect by being placed in the field.

214
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:29,000
The next theory of Mr. Smith, which I shall endeavor to discuss, is that of a fascinating

215
00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:35,000
I find it one of the most fascinating of all, and this is tensor energy.

216
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:40,000
Mr. Smith refers to tensor energy actually as a polydimensional vector.

217
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,000
That is, it's a definite vector quantity. It can be measured.

218
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,000
It's going somewhere, we can say, and it can be measured.

219
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,000
It's polydimensional, however.

220
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,000
That is, there are various aspects of dimension to it.

221
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:58,000
Normally we think of energy as measured in orthodont X, Y, and Z axes,

222
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,000
or that possibly in arithmetic expressions L, M, and N.

223
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,000
These are different types of measuring, of course, dimensions.

224
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:12,000
Tensor energy is what Mr. Smith refers to a six-dimensional space wave.

225
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,000
Not six, but six dimensions actually.

226
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:19,000
Six-dimensional space wave has no velocity.

227
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,000
All points then would be at interval zero.

228
00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:28,000
That is, if it has no velocity, you see, we don't have to think of point-to-point crests on it as a space wave.

229
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,000
You see, we don't have to think of these points as having certain time intervals, because there is none.

230
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:37,000
It has interval zero. It's not under any particular velocity.

231
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,000
It has then freedom from both space and time.

232
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,000
Both space and time.

233
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:49,000
Now, to wind a coil which will be able to actually transfer electrical,

234
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:58,000
or we might say electromagnetic, that is, high frequency, radio frequency energy, into tensor energy.

235
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:04,000
I have a device here which is wound as per Mr. Smith's instructions.

236
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,000
Now, what we do, we start out with a piece of ferrite core.

237
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:18,000
Now, ferrite, of course, is the ferric oxide material in a clay matrix, which is used as the antennae.

238
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,000
Are used as antennae in the banks of the little transistor radios,

239
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,000
and even the trans-oceanic short-wave radios and so on use these.

240
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,000
They're a very core, partially magnetically permeable,

241
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,000
but for the most part, they're almost just like a hard clay, or they look really like slate.

242
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:46,000
But they do have it artificially man-made, and it is a clay matrix with ferric oxide, and so it is partially magnetic.

243
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:55,000
Now, we take this, and the diameter of this rod has to be 1 eighth of the length, 1 seventh to 1 eighth.

244
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,000
Right in there, this is fairly critical, but not terribly critical.

245
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:06,000
What I have here, of course, is approximately, I would say, 3 eighths diameter.

246
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:13,000
Unfortunately, this isn't good enough. Mr. Smith used for his, one was an inch in diameter and 8 inches long.

247
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:20,000
This, of course, is a very large piece of ferrite core, not the type that one might be able to find in a radio stock

248
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:23,000
at your local radio wholesale distributor, as I well know.

249
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:30,000
This summer, I am working for a local wholesale radio house, and unfortunately, I've been unable to get any as of yet,

250
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,000
after several weeks of trying, but some of the coil companies probably do stock this material, and I have ordered it.

251
00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:42,000
Now, the coil is wound in a very weird fashion, actually.

252
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:51,000
We start with a long hunk of insulated wire, perhaps number 22, 24, 26, cotton covered, so that we have it insulated.

253
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:59,000
And then we take the very long lengths of it, probably, if we have one, for example, an inch in diameter, and 8 inches long.

254
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:08,000
Naturally, we have to use probably 20 or 30, maybe even 40 feet of wire by the time we're through winding to wind it over the entire surface.

255
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:15,000
We start then by taking the wire, the one length, and doubling it over, so that we have two free ends,

256
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,000
and then at the opposite, of course, we have the loop where it turns over and comes back again.

257
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:23,000
Now, we take the ferrite core, and we start at that loop.

258
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:30,000
In other words, we've taken this double-backed wire and pull it over the one end of the ferrite core, so that we're up snug against it.

259
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:40,000
We have two leads, now, each equal in length, going back from the core, and then we start winding, each lead going in the opposite direction around this ferrite core.

260
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:49,000
In doing this, as we come around and the two leads meet for the first time halfway around this ferrite core, we cross them over.

261
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,000
Let's say we cross the right one over the left one.

262
00:23:52,000 --> 00:24:03,000
Now, on that side, every time these leads again come around, we have to do it exactly the same way, and I mean exactly symmetrical, without any variation detectable.

263
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:10,000
So that when we're through now, we will have then on this one side as the leads come around, right going over left.

264
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:16,000
Then these leads, of course, pass around and get back to the original side again, and we go left over right, you see, just the opposite.

265
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:25,000
Now, we repeat this all the way down the coil, starting out with the loop first coming around halfway around the coil, and we put right over left.

266
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:29,000
Then we pull these around to the other side, and left goes over right, and then all the way down like this.

267
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:41,000
They're tight wound against each other, tight wound against the core, and when we're through, and we look at this, we'll see that on one side of the rod, they're all right over left.

268
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000
On the other side of the rod, all left over right.

269
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:55,000
So that this goes all the way the entire length of the coil, and finally down at the bottom of the coil when we finish, we simply lightly twist these and pull away a lead with which we can work as an actual lead.

270
00:24:55,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Now, as I mentioned, this coil has to be completely symmetrical.

271
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,000
If there's any variations whatsoever according to Mr. Smith, it will not work.

272
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:19,000
As a matter of fact, Mr. Smith has wound several of these, not all of them work, and some of them would work only after rewinding the same core with the same wire in what appeared to be the same fashion, but probably just approaching a better symmetry.

273
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:25,000
Upon completion of this, we try to find what the resonant frequencies are of this coil.

274
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:34,000
Now, I say R. This seems strange, I said before, that a coil of wire, of course, with a given capacitor across it will have a one particular resonant frequency.

275
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:43,000
However, this coil, by the very configuration of its winding, has a large number of resonant frequencies in what we call harmonics.

276
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Now, we take this coil, and we use an instrument called a grid-dip oscillator.

277
00:25:49,000 --> 00:26:02,000
A GDO or grid-dip oscillator is a device very commonly used by hams as well as technicians to find out what frequencies we're dealing with after we've wound a coil, as it's wound to the frequency for which we intend to use it.

278
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,000
I'm taking this grid-dip oscillator then.

279
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:18,000
We will put the coil of the grid-dip oscillator next to this tensor energy converter coil, and we'll start swinging the control on there and read directly from this grid-dip oscillator exactly what frequency.

280
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:29,000
This thing seems to be sensitive to. There's a little meter, and this little meter on the grid-dip oscillator, that is, the instrument with which we are checking this tensor energy converter coil.

281
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:34,000
The little meter will dip. That's where we get the name, the dip, part of the grid-dip oscillator.

282
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,000
The meter itself will swing downward when we go across the frequency to which this is sensitive or resonant.

283
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:48,000
And then we read on the calibration on the meter exactly what the frequency is to which this is particularly resonant.

284
00:26:48,000 --> 00:27:06,000
I've done that with this small coil I built, and I found, for example, this has a resonant frequency of 3.64 megacycles, 8.1 megacycles, 18.2 megacycles, 43 megacycles, and just above 250 megacycles.

285
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:19,000
So obviously then, even this small one with larger wire than should be on here has a large number, in fact, 5 that I checked, and perhaps even more that I didn't check, frequency to which this is sensitive.

286
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Now, the application of this coil, how do we actually determine whether this coil is going to be doing something weird?

287
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:36,000
In fact, what is it supposed to do? Well, we take the coil, we remember what frequencies we've had, and we put it on a transmitter.

288
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Now, let's deal for a moment with the outcome of the experiment done by Mr. Smith with his own coil. I think this is better, and as much as I haven't put this coil that I have just wound on a transmitter yet.

289
00:27:47,000 --> 00:28:02,000
Mr. Smith had a coil which was resonant on, well, his, for example, between 2 and 20 megacycles there were 12 resonant points.

290
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:12,000
And he found that on taking this, that one of the resonant points was very close to 4 megacycles, very close to 4 megacycles.

291
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:27,000
So they took a Collins KW-1, which is a 1000 watt amateur transmitter, tuned it up to 4 megacycles, and fed the output of this high-powered transmitter into his tensor energy converter coil,

292
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:34,000
which was number 14 copper wire, which had been wound on a 1-inch barricade core, again 8 inches long.

293
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:44,000
So the Collins KW-1 then was set on master oscillator, which is VFO, or variable frequency, so that it could be changed instead of being crystal controlled,

294
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:50,000
and then they'd have to see whatever crystals they had to determine the frequency they were going to transmit into this coil.

295
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:58,000
And they fed it at 4 megacycles. The coil itself, the tensor energy converter coil, was mounted in a copper box.

296
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,000
Now, they thought by mounting it in a copper box, this would shield it from re-radiating any energy that went into it.

297
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:11,000
So what he was thinking, if this transmitter was putting out a tremendous amount of electromagnetic energy,

298
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:18,000
and this tensor energy coil were not only accepting it, but converting it into something,

299
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:26,000
then of course the coil itself would possibly get hot if we're absorbing this and re-radiating it.

300
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,000
Now, if we put a shield around it, it can't re-radiate it in the space.

301
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:34,000
This energy that's being transferred into here will be actually shielded from being re-radiated.

302
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:46,000
So he put the copper shield around it and fed it with this 1000 watts of radio frequency energy at its 4 megacycle resonant point.

303
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:59,000
According to Mr. Smith, as we take the transmitter and change its frequency so that we cover all the frequencies to which this tensor energy converter coil is actually resonant,

304
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:10,000
there are as many as possible, we'll find at least one frequency which would seem to actually accept infinite power without ever heating to any appreciable degree.

305
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:17,000
So here we have a coil of wire which should heat by all rights if a lot of power is being fed to it.

306
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:26,000
But according to Mr. Smith, we actually have a coil in this tensor energy that will accept all radio frequency power that can even be put to it.

307
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:32,000
And it will not re-radiate it, it does not store it up, it's going somewhere but where?

308
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:40,000
Well according to Mr. Smith, this material into which the radio frequency energy is being changed is tensor energy.

309
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Now tensor energy being having no particular velocity, no particular time intervals involved you see,

310
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:57,000
because of course as he mentioned there's no time intervals in between the crests of the wave, although it is definitely a wave form.

311
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:06,000
It doesn't have to go anywhere and be radiated at the speed of light or anything like this, so it actually apparently can just store up.

312
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
And according to him it in fact does this.

313
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:25,000
Now a report on this from one other radio ham whom I know quite well, this man's name is Robert Oxzainer, W9AUT, his is car letters.

314
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:38,000
He lives right now in Chicago, Illinois and he lived with Mr. Smith and his family for approximately a month while he was on stay in Canada for one time.

315
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:44,000
And during this time he helped him with some of these experiments and actually sought in operation.

316
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:54,000
According to Bob Oxzainer they hooked the tensor energy coil up to this column's transmitter and they suddenly dislodged,

317
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:07,000
actually dislodged this coil from the transmitter and there was a pop, a crack as they dislodged it and angel hair precipitated out all over the floor of the laboratory in which they were doing this operation.

318
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:12,000
Some of the cars very interesting brings up a possibility.

319
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,000
Number one is angel hair.

320
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Actually a result of this war perhaps we are producing whatever it might be, the actual conversion of electromagnetic energy, a field of electromagnetic energy into a field of tensor energy.

321
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:37,000
Or as some people would say and the possibility of course is equally great, is angel hair actually ionized hair?

322
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:44,000
Here we have a sudden snap, you see, an electrical and electromagnetic field and electrical discharge with a type power.

323
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:55,000
So possibly you see we have air naturally around it, we have an electrical discharge, everything, you see perfect, conducive for the formation of something as a result of the ionization of the surrounding air.

324
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:05,000
The next theory of which Mr. Smith holds the authorship is that of reduced binding force.

325
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:23,000
Now as you probably know binding force can best be described as that nuclear force which holds molecules together in their binding, it holds atoms together to form molecules, it holds solids to remain solids, liquid to remain liquid, gas to remain gas.

326
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:29,000
This is the force that keeps the molecules from dispersing, it actually holds them together, this we refer to as binding force.

327
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:52,000
According to Mr. Smith there are lines wandering above the Earth, there he is which he calls vortices, in which there have been reductions I should say, reductions in the binding force, he calls these very appropriately reduced binding force vortices.

328
00:33:52,000 --> 00:34:01,000
Now these vortices are actually formed by the detonation of nuclear devices.

329
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:18,000
Mr. Smith contends that every time there is a detonation of a nuclear device at the area of detonation and the gravitational antipathy, that is the point approximately on the other side of the Earth in which we have the opposite from this point of gravity,

330
00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,000
the opposite counterpart at the other side of the Earth.

331
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,000
At these two points we have an area produced of reduced binding.

332
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000
They might say well how big are they and of course you're going to ask what do they do.

333
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:44,000
Well according, let me answer the first question which I asked first, the binding force vortex itself is approximately a thousand feet or perhaps even a mile in diameter, they vary greatly.

334
00:34:44,000 --> 00:35:01,000
And of course both of them regardless whether it be at the point in which we have the detonation or at the gravitation antipathy on the other side of the Earth, this is still about a thousand feet to a mile in diameter are these vortices.

335
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:13,000
What do they do was the next question I suggested to be asked and the answer to this is that they do reduce the structural tensile strength of materials.

336
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:35,000
For example, in Canada there was a bridge collapse from Mr. Smith's associates with devices which would detect that which we shall discuss in a moment, went to this area and these devices definitely, most decidedly and positively registered reduced binding area.

337
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:48,000
They had a crash of an airplane, a large commercial plane, right at takeoff from an airfield and of course at takeoff we have maximum stress.

338
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,000
We have the fuselage still trying to set down on Earth.

339
00:35:52,000 --> 00:36:01,000
We have the wings with the course and lift being pulled up and at this point we have the maximum stress on the fuselages against the wings and this plane did fold and crash.

340
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:17,000
Immediately then Mr. Smith and some of his associates or just the associates, again this is irrelevant, went into the area with the binding force detectors and very positively again did find that there was reduced binding.

341
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:24,000
Now how do we make one of these detectors to find out whether there is such a thing?

342
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,000
Well, it is worthwhile I believe to make such a detector.

343
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:39,000
For example, a practical application of this, steel samples were tested in Ottawa at the National Research Council at 90,000 pounds per square inch of tensile strength.

344
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:44,000
The same steel samples were shipped to Washington Bureau of Standards.

345
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:49,000
At the Washington Bureau of Standards they were 5,000 pounds per square inch.

346
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:55,000
There was definitely a difference here you see between the binding forces at the two locations.

347
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,000
So this has a practical as well as an interesting theoretical possibility.

348
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,000
We could have one of these as a monitor.

349
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,000
We can have it going.

350
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:11,000
If one of these should go by you see and perhaps we are doing something demanding maximum stress on machinery or something like this,

351
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:16,000
why of course we can immediately see whether we are in an area of reduced binding force.

352
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:24,000
Again, Matt I say of course that I am trying to represent as fairly as possible Mr. Smith's theory as it is.

353
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:35,000
A very convenient device for measuring reduced binding would be anything which is put under a tremendous amount of tensile strength right up to its normal breaking point

354
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,000
and just before this point at which it is about to warp out of shape.

355
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:47,000
And we will put an indicator needle for example and mark on a background where this needle is and is normally being pulled.

356
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:54,000
For example if we had a spring that would stretch out of shape, say 20 pounds, we will pull it to 19 pounds.

357
00:37:54,000 --> 00:38:00,000
Put an indicator needle at the point at which it is having its maximum deflection and put a mark,

358
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:06,000
a little graphic mark right behind it as to where it has been pulled.

359
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:11,000
Now if we went into an area of reduced binding you see and this thing would stretch because of this,

360
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,000
not being able to withstand the pull under which it had been subjected.

361
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:22,000
Why of course we would see that it would deflect from that little point that we had marked on the scratchin behind it.

362
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:29,000
A good device we can actually build to duplicate this means the detection of reduced binding force.

363
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:39,000
This nylon monofilament fishing line which I have here, one has a two pound test and the other is a much greater pull.

364
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,000
I think it is somewhere around eight or ten pounds test.

365
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:47,000
Now if we take these two and we take maybe just a couple inches or so of each, maybe six inches of each

366
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:54,000
and tie a common end together from each of them and pull, obviously we can get to a certain point

367
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,000
which one will stretch out of shape perhaps even break, the other one will still be well within its tolerance.

368
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:08,000
The reason of course we use the both lines as being made of the same material, nylon is that they will be self compensating

369
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,000
in terms of humidity variations and in terms of temperature variations.

370
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,000
I saw a device which was constructed by one of the members of the Ottawa UFO group.

371
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:26,000
This man is an instrument maker and he constructed a device that was beautifully balanced.

372
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:33,000
It consisted of a nice blade edge which was being pulled from both sides.

373
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:42,000
In other words it was in a notch, the blade was in a notch and both sides were being pulled down by a nylon strand.

374
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,000
One was the thin nylon, one was the heavier nylon on the other side and these were then pulled down very very tightly

375
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:56,000
and he had a long indicator needle on here which was against a scored discussion which of course was set at zero

376
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:02,000
and as this would pull one way or another there would be of course the slightest amount of change in binding force.

377
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:07,000
This needle would show a very great deviation, a great deflection.

378
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:14,000
Now of course as you know I am extremely interested in UFOs.

379
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:22,000
Else I wouldn't belong to NYCAP and more recently April and of course having been first chairman of the Cleveland Ecology Project.

380
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:34,000
But I presume that in your talks with him you did discuss the UFO picture because he does a great deal about UFOs isn't it?

381
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,000
Most decidedly there is no doubt about that at all Earl.

382
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:48,000
Wilbert Smith was of course the director, chairman however you want to refer to it, of the Project Magnet also called Canada's Flying Saucer Lookout Lab

383
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,000
which was under the auspices of the Canadian Department of Transportation.

384
00:40:52,000 --> 00:41:00,000
They're equivalent more or less to our Federal Communications Commission and also our Transportation Regulations Governing Agency.

385
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:17,000
This was a little laboratory which was constructed up in Shirley Bay, Ontario near Ottawa, near Mr. Smith's home actually within just a few minutes of automobile transportation time.

386
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:24,000
They had in this little building a large number of small pieces of electronic equipment and so on.

387
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:28,000
They had a device for example for detecting any changes in radiation.

388
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:36,000
They had devices for magnetic changes, devices for gravitational flux, various geophysical devices like this.

389
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,000
And at one instant I've been assured this definitely did operate.

390
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:55,000
We had for example Bob Oxzainer, a friend of Wilbert Smith, a fairly close friend and one who has seen a large number of Wilbert Smith's efforts in the UFO field

391
00:41:55,000 --> 00:42:00,000
knew of an instance in which all of the devices sounded at once.

392
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,000
Not only did they all sound the alarm at once but also they went off human.

393
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,000
I guess just about the treatment he received from constantly being badgered.

394
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,000
For this reason they went underground with it.

395
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:21,000
Much of this is still going ha ha and however the time because of Mr. Smith's illness of course he has been unable to guide the efforts.

396
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:32,000
During the actual operation however of this when Mr. Smith was on his feet he was constantly visited by both Canadian government officials as well as American government officials.

397
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:45,000
And of course upper echelon people with attaché cases that were chained and lost to their wrists to make sure of course that none of the information was dropped or left behind in a bus station or something.

398
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:53,000
And so he had a number of visits. They had samples. They wanted him to analyze of hardware that is actually metal that had been found.

399
00:42:53,000 --> 00:43:01,000
They often made many statements. I might mention some of the statements that had been made concerning do we have hardware.

400
00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:07,000
American government possess hardware according to Mr. Smith let me cite this.

401
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:16,000
In 1954 we of course had a shall we say either a noteworthy or a notorious sighting over Washington D.C.

402
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:18,000
During this time in here.

403
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,000
He shot a piece right off.

404
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,000
I don't know why it's lying on there.

405
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:27,000
It was a piece of an head. It was found two hours later and had it glowed to it.

406
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,000
Actually it was glowing. It was silverish white glowed to it.

407
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:38,000
This white after about two weeks had been mined to a brown texture.

408
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:47,000
The object itself that we shot off the chunk was about as big as could be held in a couple of hands grasping it.

409
00:43:47,000 --> 00:44:01,000
It was had a very distinct chunk of edge. It was curved. It had tapering sides so that it looked like it had actually been shot or the chunk broken off from the edge of a double-fossil shape.

410
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,000
The typical shape.

411
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:05,000
Bob I'd like to just break in here for a second.

412
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:18,000
I recall a year ago when Devon Bowler from Massachusetts sent to our group, Cleveland Uprarajikar, out of the Danish smorgasbord at our annual dinner,

413
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,000
that he was referring to a piece of metal.

414
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:29,000
This was the first time I had heard it mentioned having been shot down from one of these.

415
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:33,000
He was a USO's over Washington in the back in 52.

416
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:38,000
He said that Admiral Knowles held this piece in his hand.

417
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,000
So, what's the problem with what Wilber Smith had told you?

418
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:46,000
Most decidedly. This would be probably about the right size.

419
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:55,000
I mentioned Wilber Smith held with his hand holding something with two hands as he was describing it visually as best he could without the sample and the specimen.

420
00:44:55,000 --> 00:45:02,000
And the only thing which of course did not jive as would be obvious on this is the two dates.

421
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:12,000
I said 54. You discussed the very famous sighting of 52 and I feel quite likely this chunk was probably the famous 52 sighting,

422
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:15,000
which I have simply having my notes to the wrong date.

423
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:25,000
So, far back in November of last year when Joe Gordon asked me to be on his program one night on radio, WRE,

424
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:33,000
I brought this point out hoping that maybe there would be some comment from the radio audience.

425
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:43,000
This, to the best of my knowledge, was the first and only time the sighting of 52 relative to the piece being shot down and being held by Admiral Knowles

426
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,000
has ever been made public.

427
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:49,000
Yes, and some more of the information about this.

428
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,000
It's a shame that no one had commented on it as a result of the program.

429
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,000
Perhaps Mr. Smith would have had even been able to hear it in Ottawa.

430
00:45:56,000 --> 00:46:01,000
However, I have a little bit late perhaps, there's something we can edit in here.

431
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000
Some of the factual material concerning that chunk.

432
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:11,000
First of all, it had a, we're getting back to radio again, an initial resonance.

433
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:22,000
That is, when it was found, this unidentified chunk of material actually had a radio frequency resonance of 4.5 megacycles.

434
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,000
That is, it actually had a sensitivity to 4.5 megacycles.

435
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,000
This was when it was, however, initially found.

436
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,000
After a while, it had lost.

437
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:39,000
After that two weeks when it had gone down to its dull brown color, it had lost its initial 4.5 megacycles radio resonance

438
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:44,000
and it also lost an initial high magnetic permeability.

439
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:48,000
It was very, very magnetic when it was first found.

440
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:54,000
The material itself was magnesium ortho-silicate.

441
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,000
This was the matrix of the material, magnesium ortho-silicate.

442
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:08,000
And upon microscopic examination, it was found it contained thousands of little tiny spheres

443
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:10,000
that were embedded all through the matrix.

444
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:14,000
And these little spheres, we don't know why they're there, but they were in the construction.

445
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,000
They were approximately 15 microns in diameter and they were dimpled.

446
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,000
Each one had a slight dimple in one side of it.

447
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:27,000
According to Mr. Smith, the United States military intelligence has tons of hardware.

448
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:31,000
They had readily admitted to this upon interview by Mr. Smith.

449
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,000
During the time he was the director of this research project in Canada.

450
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,000
And they have much film.

451
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:43,000
Of course, we know of many cases which have been told to us in which film was never returned.

452
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,000
For cannabal skin divers, this is also an interesting one.

453
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:56,000
While trying to recover a, during a scavenging, felted operation for rocket materials over the edge of Cape Canaveral,

454
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:01,000
recovered a device which was round, around 10 inches or 15 inches in diameter,

455
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:08,000
like about the size of basketball, and very much effort was extended in trying to cut a chunk out.

456
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:17,000
But once they did cut out a piece, it was found to contain, as a one issue newspaper that had gotten hold of it related,

457
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:23,000
a tense recording mechanism of advanced design in many unknown parts.

458
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:29,000
Concerning the actual structure of the U.S.O. metal, Mr. Smith offers this.

459
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:36,000
That metal, when recently analyzed, or I should say when analyzed, and the metal itself as a specimen,

460
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:39,000
is a very recent vintage.

461
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,000
It's subject to what he calls time dilation.

462
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:50,000
And if we take a spectrographic analysis, the entire spectrograph will be shifted to the right or to the left,

463
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:57,000
showing that actually time as this exposure is being made, there's a time constant which is being worked here,

464
00:48:57,000 --> 00:48:59,000
which is actually changing.

465
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:04,000
And for example, then if we look at this metal in a spectrograph, we put a known sample there,

466
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:08,000
and we take this metal, which might even have some of that same metal in it,

467
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:15,000
when the lines from the spectrograph line up, there will actually be a shift of the entire spectrograph,

468
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:20,000
or I should say the spectrogram itself, over to either the right or the left,

469
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:24,000
as we analyze it, because this is the result of a time dilation.

470
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:31,000
It will normalize, however, after a few months following an exponential curve of dissipation, actually.

471
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:39,000
It's sort of a trigonometric function that will dissipate and gradually go back to normal again, following an exponential curve.

472
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:44,000
Mr. Smith found that some of it was violently exothermic.

473
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:50,000
That is a tremendous release of energy upon being stimulated to a release of energy.

474
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:59,000
He had a size, maybe half the size, of a pea, and he wanted to make this a little bit smaller and make it a bead shape,

475
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:07,000
and so he took an oxyacetylene torch to try to cut it down, and on putting it, it showered sparks for about 20 seconds,

476
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:15,000
much rooming up in a big mushroom burst, actually, of sparks, after the ignition by this oxyacetylene torch,

477
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:20,000
to try and burn it down a little bit.

478
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:25,000
Now, that metal which he used is this sample that I hold here right in my hand now,

479
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:34,000
and if you look at it, it looks like it's very, it's not too into square, so it looks like a very rough pouring and cooling.

480
00:50:34,000 --> 00:50:43,000
That's right, it's almost like a part of a splatter, really, of it, and it's getting rusty now,

481
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:51,000
however, if you look at the freshly broken inside, you can see that it is very crystalline and cast in appearance.

482
00:50:51,000 --> 00:51:00,000
This was given a spectrographic analysis, and I've got no report, yes it is extremely heavy,

483
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:07,000
I've got no report of it being exothermic, and it was a piece of this that was exothermic for Mr. Smith.

484
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:14,000
The result of the spectrogram when analyzed, this is very high in both iron of course,

485
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:23,000
as you would expect from this appearance and its steel, and also very high in manganese,

486
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,000
both of which of course are prevalent in good steel.

487
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:31,000
So this apparently then has a high manganese and a high iron content,

488
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:35,000
I'm asking now, this was only analyzed a few days ago at Union Carbide,

489
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:42,000
and I'm hoping for a piece of it, or rather for the analysis, the spectrogram itself, to be submitted to me for my record.

490
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,000
These high spots, I know they're shiny, have they been fine?

491
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:50,000
They have been roughed, yes, in order to get ideas of texture of the metal itself.

492
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,000
Or the edges broken are very crystalline.

493
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:54,000
Right, and those were hit off by a sledgehammer.

494
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,000
What is the golden car due to?

495
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,000
That is rust.

496
00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,000
That actually just rust.

497
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:07,000
Now, the history of this metal is rather interesting, I find it quite interesting as a matter of fact.

498
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:14,000
This was actually found on the north shore of the St. Lawrence River near the village Écouillet,

499
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,000
which is 20 miles west of Quebec City.

500
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,000
It was found in July 1960.

501
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:26,000
According to the townspeople, it was not on the shore before July 1.

502
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:31,000
It was found around July 4, very close to the 4th of July.

503
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,000
How large a piece was this?

504
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:38,000
Originally, there were two large pieces, total weight being a couple of tons.

505
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,000
A couple of tons?

506
00:52:39,000 --> 00:52:40,000
A couple of tons, yes.

507
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:41,000
Now, how it would get in?

508
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:47,000
Some people suggested it came in from an ice flow, but of course this is a little bit absurd that a piece came in,

509
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:53,000
weighing a couple tons on a chunk of ice, but in any case, there were two of these chunks closely associated,

510
00:52:53,000 --> 00:53:01,000
and they were both on the north bank of the St. Lawrence River, outside Écouillet, near Quebec City.

511
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:09,000
The larger one, unfortunately, before Mr. Smith's crew could get hold of it, had been already salvaged by a salvage company

512
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:18,000
and was shipped, had been on its way being shipped over to Japan to be mulled down for our transistor radio or something.

513
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:22,000
How large would you say these pieces were that laid that much?

514
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:27,000
I couldn't guess except to say that it would be probably in the neighborhood of several feet in diameter,

515
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,000
probably three or four feet in diameter.

516
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,000
Is this a cubic yard?

517
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:34,000
No, oh, a cubic?

518
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:38,000
No, more like a square yard, an inch or two in depth.

519
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,000
Oh, is that so?

520
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,000
This would be my guess.

521
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:41,000
It was not a...

522
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:42,000
Not a...

523
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,000
A thick piece.

524
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:45,000
No, not particularly thick.

525
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,000
They were heavy enough, however, that in order for Smith to get a chunk out,

526
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:55,000
they had to actually get a tank wrecker, which, of course, would be a device for trying to salvage tanks,

527
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:57,000
which had gone over in ditches and so on.

528
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:01,000
So this gives you an idea of approximately how big the device itself was,

529
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,000
or I should say the chunk of raw material.

530
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,000
As to why it was there, how it got there, we don't know.

531
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:09,000
We can only surmise it.

532
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:13,000
Who knows, it might have been poured there, it might have been dropped, cool.

533
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,000
This would only be conjecture on my part.

534
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,000
There are some other ideas.

535
00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,000
I got into the discussion of fireballs.

536
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,000
What are these fireballs?

537
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,000
Are they meteors or what?

538
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:34,000
Apparently, according to Mr. Smith, his theory on these, with perhaps evidence and research,

539
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:41,000
which he has put into it, the green exploding fireballs that have been seen are primarily copper.

540
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:49,000
And copper, because copper has a neutron capture ability, it's capable of capturing neutrons.

541
00:54:49,000 --> 00:55:00,000
And for this reason, it is actually of, shall we say, intelligent design and of intelligent origin,

542
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:05,000
and is in the atmosphere capturing radioactive neutrons.

543
00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:12,000
And these are the, when they get to a certain amount of radioactive intensity with the neutron absorption,

544
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,000
they do simply explode and dissipate.

545
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,000
In, of course, East Haven, Connecticut, there's a billboard which was hit.

546
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:28,000
This was hit by a monitor, and the monitor itself was 16 inches in diameter.

547
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:32,000
And there was an actual atomic transmutation that took place here.

548
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,000
And remember, they found bits of copper around this billboard.

549
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:42,000
According to Mr. Smith, the cause of this was that the galvanized zinc of the billboard itself

550
00:55:42,000 --> 00:55:49,000
was transmuted into copper by the impact of nuclear radiation during the meeting of the two metals.

551
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:53,000
When did you say, did you see when this took place?

552
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,000
I have no date on this.

553
00:55:55,000 --> 00:56:01,000
This was in the publication on Flying Saucers by the young Max Miller.

554
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,000
Also, this was a paper bound, as you might remember.

555
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:06,000
Yes, I do.

556
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:12,000
There was a good diagram, by the way, of the Cartwright detector, which we shall get into in a moment, and I'll just describe.

557
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:17,000
The fireballs themselves are generally around 100 feet in diameter,

558
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:23,000
and the copper of which the fireballs are composed are of a rare isotope.

559
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:27,000
It's a rare isotope with good neutron capturing ability.

560
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:37,000
For actually detecting UFOs, being able to have some device, which I'll say to you, there's a UFO here in the area,

561
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:42,000
why Mr. Smith suggests the standard Cartwright detector.

562
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:48,000
And of course, we all know this is basically a compass needle, which normally points north and south,

563
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:53,000
and to which has been connected some device, which will either electrically complete a circuit

564
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:59,000
when the needle moves or possibly a mirror that will reflect the beam of light or something like this,

565
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,000
that will indicate.

566
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:06,000
Now, I have here a device, which is basically a long iron needle.

567
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:14,000
As you can see above, all as big as an old-fashioned real heavy pencil-led, pencil graphite.

568
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,000
About eight inches long?

569
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,000
Yes, about eight inches long, and it is suspended by a strip of brass,

570
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:27,000
and the brass is a hanger that suspends itself on a little point, as you can see, this little pivot.

571
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:37,000
Now, it looks right, and the brass is curved so that we can force the magnetic iron little rod through it,

572
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:42,000
of course, both ends, so that it can be hung over this little pin, this little pivot.

573
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:47,000
Now, originally I tried to hook this up so that it would make a contact electrically,

574
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,000
but it was very unstable at a jiggle and awful lot.

575
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:57,000
So, I have devised another means of actually utilizing this another way.

576
00:57:57,000 --> 00:58:01,000
Mounted on here will be very shortly, I'm finishing this now,

577
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:07,000
a little piece of paper or anything that will obstruct light.

578
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:14,000
Now, here is a device that is actually a transistor audio oscillator feeding in a little speaker,

579
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,000
and it is a photoelectric cell.

580
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:21,000
As I picked this up, notice when the sunlight hits it,

581
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,000
we get a rather cow sounding noise.

582
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:30,000
I presume this rod is now pointing directly north.

583
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:39,000
That's right, although you have a magnetic personality, actually it is pointing towards the magnetic north.

584
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:43,000
And of course it will maintain this position.

585
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:53,000
What I do, I shine a beam of light across this piece of whatever it is that is obstructing light on this little compass needle, more or less.

586
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:59,000
And as long as that is in between this photoelectric cell that is hooked up on this audio oscillator,

587
00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,000
the beam of light will never strike the cell and will never get a tone.

588
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,000
But as soon as this thing moves, the light will go by that little obstruction and...

589
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:10,000
...we get the noise.

590
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:14,000
Also, there is a device here that I throw the switch and now it says light.

591
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:20,000
Now notice, as I take again, let light get by here, a little bulb goes on.

592
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:26,000
And although then again it would return to its normal position and be obstructed, the bulb remains on.

593
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:32,000
So in other words, this is showing if you are away from it, that something has occurred during your absence?

594
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,000
Right, that's it exactly.

595
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:34,000
Wonderful.

596
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:41,000
So you see you have an idea here, an actual visible means of determining whether you've had an event, although even in your absence.

597
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:47,000
Well this is nothing that is commercially obtainable, this is something you yourself have.

598
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,000
I have various perks.

599
00:59:48,000 --> 00:59:51,000
That's right, however, only to one degree.

600
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:55,000
Now this device that I use is actually a code oscillator.

601
00:59:55,000 --> 00:59:59,000
It's put out by the Heath Kit Company, which is very famous for its kits.

602
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:06,000
It's put out by, well actually it's a Daystrom subsidiary and it's in Benton Harbor, Michigan.

603
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,000
And they have this, it's called their CO1 code oscillator.

604
01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:11,000
It was used to practice Morse code.

605
01:00:11,000 --> 01:00:19,000
Now, of course, all I had to do was put this little photoelectric diode, it's a photo-fensitive diode.

606
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:25,000
I just put it right across the terminals to which your Morse code key would be attached and when light strikes it, the tone happens.

607
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:29,000
Or when you put it in the light position and let light strike it, the bulb will go on.

608
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:33,000
Even though you cover up the diode again, the bulb will remain on.

609
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:38,000
So you can use it in either one of those positions for your own detection.

610
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:49,000
Concerning how much magnetism is required to deflect a car-ride detector, according to Mr. Smith, of course the Earth's magnetic field is less than one gauss,

611
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:55,000
which is a unit of magnetic flux density and it's about one half a gauss unit.

612
01:00:55,000 --> 01:01:05,000
The flux originating from a UFO is 500,000 gauss of flux, meaning of course you have a tremendous magnetic field set up

613
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:12,000
and for this reason a device like this would become extremely applicable for the detection of the presence of some of these aerial phenomena.

614
01:01:12,000 --> 01:01:20,000
Although, of course, that could lead us to certain conclusions, I think that probably everyone who hears this tape or who's ever investigated UFOs

615
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:26,000
perhaps has his own pet theories as to their origin, whether or not they do exist.

616
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:33,000
Let me only say one thing to be put on record that I believe there's an overwhelming amount of evidence,

617
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:38,000
the factual information of hardware, of material, which shows that there is something.

618
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:47,000
What it is, again, this could be conjecture, however, of course, many of us have opinions which greatly do coincide.

619
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:54,000
As to my opinion, this, of course, would come to me by my own, I hope, intelligent reasoning,

620
01:01:54,000 --> 01:02:04,000
and I feel that all of this data, all of this hardware, all of these films, all of this material does show that there is a little bit more to it

621
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:13,000
than perhaps many sources would have us believe, that if we were to amass and evaluate all of the information available,

622
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:22,000
we would have a tremendous reservoir of information concerning the positive existence of certain types of aerial phenomena.

623
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,000
Well, I appreciate very much, Bob.

624
01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:37,000
The time is given to telling us, giving us all this information that you received through Robert Smith in Canada.

625
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:42,000
I feel that Cleveland Nephrology Project will be happy to hear it.

626
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:48,000
I'll pray that the forthcoming meeting, I hope you will be there in person and be able to speak,

627
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:58,000
this may be used to refresh your memory at point, but it's much nicer, of course, to listen to you live rather than on stage.

628
01:02:58,000 --> 01:02:59,000
Thank you.